Dead DUCK 3 , DD3, The new generation GEN 3

[Bazz]

2 hours ago, MikaS said:

 

Lighter crank, updated pistons and rods, redesigned injectors, does not mean shite, 2hp max

did that 3 years ago

[mark3evo]

14 minutes ago, Bazz said:

did that 3 years ago

are the carillos lighter than stock - they look heavy but strong

[MikaS]

39 minutes ago, Bazz said:

did that 3 years ago

 

 

But you really got into it, i bet the Suzuki version means couple grams here and there

[MikaS]

26 minutes ago, mark3evo said:

are the carillos lighter than stock - they look heavy but strong

 

H-profile rods used to be the same weight as stock, but later they became lighter. Carrillo and Wössner, both h-profile rods are lighter than stock.

It was something like this, i just throw numbers here,

stock rod g1 400g(396g something), any h-profile 400g, chinese h-profile 410g, chinese I-profile 430g, Carrillo A-profile 353g, later Wössner h-prof 383g, Falicon knife 380g, Crower ti-rod h-prof 296-299g

[MikaS]

2 hours ago, mark3evo said:

i copied this off another forum in response to Chris moore vid, the author is a tuner and gives ideas forwhy it happened and improvements by tweaking...

 

 

 

Do they consider that Suzuki may have been forced to use bigger exhaust cam, redesign the chamber and do other things because they have exhaust stuffed with catalytic converters.

Have they not done these mods to the gen1 engines already, use different cam profiles, modify the chamber etc, and know the results, what power comes out of certain engine capacity , instead of thinking Suzuki invented the wheel again

[mark3evo]

7 minutes ago, MikaS said:

 

Do they consider that Suzuki may have been forced to use bigger exhaust cam, redesign the chamber and do other things because they have exhaust stuffed with catalytic converters.

Have they not done these mods to the gen1 engines already, use different cam profiles, modify the chamber etc, and know the results, what power comes out of certain engine capacity , instead of thinking Suzuki invented the wheel again

i guess the view is suzuki have all the foundations in place, but type approvals means having to destroy the power to meet emissions.. USA die hards think unlocking all the Euro 5 crap means a high revving drag motor anyone chump can take to the track and be an instant hero with launch control 

and run a 9 second quarter

 

[MikaS]

And they may be right,

some guy takes a gen2 , do the right modifications and run low 9s

then the second guy does the same and runs 10.5s, i have seen it, i have done it

i am the second guy

[JOHN-DYNOSTAR]

the Americans talk bollocks . spreading the cams literally means widening the lobe centres

which moves the valve timing backwards , retarding the timing, which gives more top end and less midrange

on about page 3 in this thread (10  days ago )  I said the DD3 had gained midrange "probably" by just Advancing  the cam timing

which low and behold he dozy Americans are going to move it back to stock Slo8 timing and gain loads 

of hp. ,well they will only regain the lost 7hp sad to say.

They are just wishfull thinking, it is basic engineering 

and with smaller throttle bodies the game is set. I know I have had a FiNNish top speed bike on my 

Dyno with bigger cams and bored out throttle bodies bigger than a DD3 will ever see, so I know what is possible.

and 

we also did this with Mekinleys bike . once the top end HP disappeared his bottom lip came out

so it does not matter what torque or midrange it makes . if the top end is not there you are nowhere .

if you cock the gas flowing up in a motor the gas speed drops, a cheap way to speed it up is to reduce the throttle body size. That gives load of low speed accel and pickup, response. as does advancing the cam timing on big old bus.

I have not done a 6 second 1/4 and don't feel the need to. or shout about it. it is possible the secondary

butterflies are restricting the top end . but why and how do they gain the midrange as the butterflies are there to restrict the bike for emissions.

deshrouding the valve pockets as Mika will confirm helps with gas flow  but not 10hp worth.

bullshit Mr American guy, sorry   Waaasssssuuuuuppppp  !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JOHN-DYNOSTAR]

5 hours ago, Kzin said:

No, to get it you have to defeat the end of level guardian - which in this case is John, sat on his roof, throwing and rolling beer barrels down the yard at you....

I love this , looks like a future UKB dyno day challenge 

[MikaS]

27 minutes ago, JOHN-DYNOSTAR said:

the Americans talk bollocks . spreading the cams literally means widening the lobe centres

which moves the valve timing backwards , retarding the timing, which gives more top end and less midrange

on about page 3 in this thread (10  days ago )  I said the DD3 had gained midrange "probably" by just Advancing  the cam timing

which low and behold he dozy Americans are going to move it back to stock Slo8 timing and gain loads 

of hp. ,well they will only regain the lost 7hp sad to say.

They are just wishfull thinking, it is basic engineering 

and with smaller throttle bodies the game is set. I know I have had a FiNNish top speed bike on my 

Dyno with bigger cams and bored out throttle bodies bigger than a DD3 will ever see, so I know what is possible.

and 

we also did this with Mekinleys bike . once the top end HP disappeared his bottom lip came out

so it does not matter what torque or midrange it makes . if the top end is not there you are nowhere .

if you cock the gas flowing up in a motor the gas speed drops, a cheap way to speed it up is to reduce the throttle body size. That gives load of low speed accel and pickup, response. as does advancing the cam timing on big old bus.

 

 

 

Thanks JD,

i already thought i had this always wrong,

so Suzuki did what to increase mid range power ?

 

One engine tuner and machinist in US testified how bigger throttle bodies increased power , even in stock engine (gen2) , gen1 was bigger already. 

We bored out also gen2 throttle bodies using gen1 butterflies, it was in Petri`s 1622cc , also Juha tested these in his 1441c and found it beneficial. Now they are all combined, its Juha`s engine 1634cc with big throttles and big tube exhaust, we never got a chance to try it on the track.